Virtual assistants and remote freelancers are the key to scaling your digital business with minimal cost while still maintaining your freedom. In this episode, Nathan Hirsch, digital entrepreneur and founder of FreeeUp.com, shares the strategies you need to know to hire, manage and retain the top virtual talent online.
Ways to communicate with your virtual team:
- Whatsapp https://www.whatsapp.com/
- To learn about Nathan’s business partner, Connor Gillivan http://connorgillivan.com/
- To learn more about Nathan’s business, Freeeup: Freeeup.com
Transcription Episode 73: How To Hire A Virtual Assistant The Right Way – With Nathan Hirsch
Welcome to The Project Ignite Podcast, a podcast designed to skip all that hype, skip all that BS and just give you guys real actionable tips, strategies, things that you can actually use to grow your business, your digital business that is and income on the internet.
This is your host, Derek Gehl, and today you’re going to … Let’s call it a crash course on how to hire a virtual assistant and contractors to really help you grow and scale your digital business so you can maximize your results while still having the freedom and lifestyle that virtual business provides.
Guys, this is a topic that’s really near and dear to my heart because after selling my last company back in 2009, I had over a 100 employees. I had offices in 2 countries.
When I did that, when I sold that company, I promised myself that I would never create a company like that again because although it was successful financially, I had no life.
I began focusing my time on creating companies that would not only give me the financial freedom that I wanted but also that ability to work wherever I wanted.
One of the core strategies to achieving this was learning how to hire a virtual assistant. Let me tell you, I made a bucket of mistakes and it costs me a ton of money. I mean in one project alone outsourcing I think I lost about $75,000 when I started. I want to help you skip those mistakes.
Once I unlocked the secrets of how to hire a virtual assistant and manage good contractors, my business took off and I was able to grow and scale while still living that internet lifestyle.
That’s why I’m excited about today’s guest because he started as an Amazon seller and digital entrepreneur but through the process of growing and scaling his business, he learned how to hire a virtual assistant and became a hiring expert for VAs, for contractors.
Now, he is dedicated to helping other digital entrepreneurs hire the right people for their businesses. He’s hired hundreds of workers. He’s written a book on it. He’s founded a company called FreeeUp that has over 200 clients and he provides them access to the virtual workers they need.
We’re going to dig deep into how to hire a virtual assistant today.
Without further ado, I’d like to welcome Nathan Hirsch to the show.
Nathan, thank you for being here today.
Derek, thanks for having me. How are you?
Very well, thank you. Now, before we get started, just take a second and expand on my introduction and more specifically, share your journey as an entrepreneur because I mean you started off as I understand in the Amazon space, how did you start off?
What got you online? What led you to this moment being interviewed today on my show as the virtual assistant hiring expert that you are?
Sure. My story has taken a lot of twist and turns, a lot of ups and downs. I started when I was in college. I was about 20 years old and I really wanted to start my own company.
I majored in entrepreneur and I had no idea where to start or what to do. I started off buying books that I would find at different libraries, different dumps, tag sales, stuff like that and seeing how much I could get from them online.
I used a bunch of different book sourcing sites, tried to sell them back to different textbook companies, stuff like that, which got me into buying and selling textbooks which I did at my college because you know that you always get ripped off at the bookstore.
I created an alternative in my dorm room where I literally had lines out the door of people wanting to sell me their textbooks and I would hold them at the end of the semester. I would carry them from my dorm room to my house and then back again and sell them at the beginning of the next semester.
From there, I learned about Amazon.com because it’s hard to sell books without learning about Amazon. At the time, Amazon was mostly a bookstore if anyone remembers that time. They were just getting into other stuff.
There were a lot of baby toys and stuff like that but instead of having 100 sellers on every listing that you can choose from, it was like me and 4 other people. I got in right at the beginning.
I started buying from different retailers, different places, different deals that I could find. Reselling this stuff online which got me more into dealing from vendors and wholesalers and I learned a lot more about Amazon and selling in different categories like.
I quickly grew my business to the point where I was running a multimillion dollar business when I was in college before I could even legally drink. It’s kind of a crazy adventure.
With any adventure with a young entrepreneur, you obviously make a ton of mistakes. It got to the point where I could answer every email, respond every call, place every order, but eventually I had to hire someone if I wanted to expand.
Think of me as a 20 year old, 21 year old trying to hire someone for the first time. You have no idea what you’re doing. You would have someone to interview and be like, “Hey. I have five questions. All right. You’re hired. We need someone. Get going.”
You learn from your mistakes and improve the process over time. Fast forwarding ahead, I graduated from college. Had the decision I had to make between getting a real job and continuing to be an entrepreneur. Moved from Connecticut to Florida to pursue my dream.
From there, when I moved down there with my business partners and a few other people that we decided to hire full time, we really found the need to hire even more workers. That’s when I needed to learn how to hire a virtual assistant.
Whenever you’re running an eCommerce business, there is a part of it that can be remote. While a lot of my workers were remote, we were usually in the space not always but we saw this need for a cheaper remote workers.
A friend of mine that I met when I moved to Florida who’s on my softball team recommended Odesk which is now Upwork and I became determined to build an Odesk army so to speak.
My idea was to create something for people who have never hired before, people that have had bad experiences hiring or people that just don’t have the time because their company is too big. People who don’t know how to hire a virtual assistant.
They can’t spend all day doing interviews and maybe they don’t have someone on their team that knows how to hire a virtual assistant so kind of handling that process for them. That led me to start FreeeUp about a year ago. We’ve been rapidly expanding and adding clients and workers ever since and that leads me to your show.
Wow. Okay. Let’s dive into how to hire a virtual assistant because I’m going to venture to say that most people … Let’s call it 80% of people that land on Upwork or Elance or whatever, they post their ad. They try and hire somebody and then they get a crap result. They become very disenchanted with the process.
Most people that I talked to their first experience or many experiences is really poor. Why is it? Why are most people failing at hiring contractors, virtual assistants, using this platforms?
That’s a good question. Yeah. I mean I started there too.
You get this huge database with more workers than you could ever talk to in your lifetime and you post a job and anyone can apply to that job. Then you’re filtering through who even has a skill set that you need. That’s tough when you don’t know how to hire a virtual assistant.
On top of that, you don’t really know what other clients they have. You don’t know what other opportunities are going to come up in the future. How committed they actually are. Feedback only tells you so much.
A buddy of mine, one of my business partners, he actually wrote an article for the FreeeUp blog about the pros and cons of Upwork.
Obviously one of the pros is you get access to all these people that you’d never would have had access to before but there are a lot of cons as well. If you don’t have a good way of filtering applicants and testing them and making sure they’re exactly what you need, you’re just going to end up right back on Upwork interviewing more people and posting more jobs.
A lot of my clients have that same bad experience while learning how to hire a virtual assistant and that’s why they have come to me looking for another solution because you just get frustrated over time if you’re making bad hires.
Every time you make a bad hire, it just sets your company backwards.
It absolutely does. It’s frustrating. There’s so many losses hiring the wrong people. I think something I learned very, very early on in my career as an entrepreneur, as my company scaled I had to hire real employees who were coming to the office was that the philosophy has to be slow to hire, quick to fire, right?
It sounds cold. It sounds pretty harsh but it’s so true. You’ve got to find the right people and if you don’t have the right people, you need to get rid of them quickly and move on to finding that right person. There’s so much cost to getting it wrong.
Now, one of the big challenges I see working with so many digital entrepreneurs is I believe there are certain things that can be outsourced and certain things that should not be outsourced. I watch people try and outsource everything or outsource things I don’t think should be outsourced. What’s your take on that?
What are the things that you see that we should be outsourcing and what should we probably keep closer to home? I think this is an important question when you’re learning how to hire a virtual assistant.
That’s a good questions and that’s probably why we offer both US and non-US workers. If you can’t outsource something, you can at least try to make it remote.
My recommendation, and I do it with my business, is I write down everything I do on a day-to-day, week-to-week basis. I put it in order from hardest to easiest. Then I start at the bottom and work my way up and I see how far I can push it.
It’s different for every company and some people are comfortable with things that other people aren’t. You get to the bottom and maybe it’s answering customer emails or certain data entry work but you would never want to outsource the core of your company.
If the core of your company is marketing, you don’t necessarily want to outsource marketing. You want to find other people who can handle marketing at your level and keep the quality control up.
You said something interesting. I want to dig into there. You said there are certain things that you can outsource but you want to keep it remote. When you were talking outsourcing, you’re talking outsourcing overseas versus keeping it in your own country?
When I think of outsource, I think of people outside of the country that you could pay a slightly lower wage in order to complete whatever task you’re doing.
There are times where let’s say you don’t know Google PPC and you want to drive traffic to your site. You might not want to outsource it. Maybe you do but you might want to hire a US expert to do it at the same level as you or even better.
Because there are going to be people out there that can do it better and those people can still be remote but to me, there’s a difference between doing that and just taking the work and giving it to the cheapest bidder.
Yeah. I wanted to think dig into that aspect of how to hire a virtual assistant because I think that’s something people don’t tease apart enough. You can outsource these higher level things, strategic things, things that require more education stuff like that, but you need to make sure you’re looking in a market where that education and skill set really exists.
There’s certain things I know I outsource that I’m not going to outsource to India or the Philippines because I know the skill set’s just not going to exist there, right?
It’s something interesting to tease apart there because you can still keep them remote and I think that’s something people need to separate in their mind. When you’re learning how to hire a virtual assistant, you have VAs that are both US or let’s call it even … It doesn’t have to be US I would guess. What’s the best way to put it? Western countries.
That’s a good way to put it.
UK, Australia and stuff. I’ve got great contractors that are really good in those areas and there’s certain countries that I wouldn’t get the same level. Okay. Things that you should not outsource versus things that you should outsource. Once you’ve figured that out, how do you find the right VAs to fill those roles?
Sure. First of all to take a step back, I always like to divide it up into 2 different kinds of clients doing virtual assistant hiring.
- You have a client who has their processes already created and you need to take a worker and serve them into those processes If your process is customer care and you have the templates, yes, you want to learn how to hire a virtual assistant with customer care experience.
At the end of the day, they’re just learning your process and doing it over and over again
- Then there’s clients that need more of those experts and that’s where you really don’t want to go cheap and you don’t want to outsource because if you don’t know how to do the process yourself, why do you think that you could hire someone cheaper than you to do that process for you?
That’s a good way to put it.
Once you determine where you fit in there, the next step is figuring out how hands-on you want to be. I always have clients who are like, “I want to learn how to hire a virtual assistant for $1 an hour,” and they definitely exist. They are out there but for every good VA that’s $1 an hour, there are a lot more bad ones there as well.
You also have to keep in mind that if you spend days or weeks or even months figuring out how to hire a virtual assistant for $1 an hour and you hire them and you train them for 2 weeks and they quit and you’re right back where you were a month ago, then it’s not necessarily worth it to you.
There’s more factors to how to hire a virtual assistant than just the hourly rate. There’s all these websites out there, Upwork.com, Freelancer.com, Onlinejobs.ph, those are good if you want to spend the time to do the interviewing. You can also see feedbacks, stuff like that.
Then there are the agencies and the recruiting companies and FreeeUp is in there although we’re a little bit more hands on.
What I really liked about FreeeUp and how I tried to make it different is we just get hundreds of applicants every week that we filter ourselves.
We interview them. We have a process that I’ve created based on my 7 years of experience. We test their skills. We make sure that they follow our communication guidelines because there’s nothing more important than communication if you’re not in the same building as someone that’s working for you.
Then we make these people available to our clients so they don’t have to know how to hire a virtual assistant. You get access to this network of already pre-vetted workers rather than just this network of everyone.
Yeah. That you have to vet yourself which is an part of how to hire a virtual assistant where most people fail on the Upwork.
Now, you were throwing out some numbers there, that dollar an hour, that $5 an hour and this is probably the number one question I get when one of my clients or one of my students wants to learn how to hire a virtual assistant and goes to an Upwork for the first time or an online jobs and they start interviewing and recruiting is how much should you pay?
Because as you know, you post a job and you’ll get the guy who wants to do it for $1 an hour and the guy who wants to do it for $30 an hour.
It’s how committed they’ll be to you. If you take a $5 an hour guy and you’re like, “You know what? You can have this job today. Just take $3 an hour.” Maybe that guy accepts this because he wants that job right now but in a week when he applies to that job for $6 an hour and someone hires him, he’s going to drop you in a second. He’s got no loyalty to you.
It’s not always about that initial hourly rate and I have a lot of clients who are learning how to hire a virtual assistant and they ask, “Can I start them at a low hourly rate and over time they’ll prove themselves?” At some point, it’s like no.
Either this worker has the skill set or don’t, either they have the background or they don’t and if you want to keep them and make them happy over time and make it so they care about your business and treat it like it’s theirs, pay them their hourly rate. It’s going to be worth it for you in the long run.
Yeah. A strategy that I’ve employed just to reinforce what you’re saying there is when I’ve hired on Upwork, if I’ve got a good candidate and they give me let’s say they’ll say, “Hey. I’m $5 an hour.” I’ll say, “Great. I’ll pay you $6 an hour,” right?
Just give them a little bit more. In our world, if they’re going to put in 20 hours a week, that’s an extra 20 bucks for me. That’s not going to make or break anybody and it’s a great tip if you’re figuring out how to hire a virtual assistant.
For me, I found that creates a little extra level of loyalty there. I agree with what you’re saying there. It’s interesting because in the countries we live in we would never go in and negotiate somebody at $5 an hour down to $4 an hour.
Mm-hmm. I agree.
It’s bizarre how there’s this mentality that, “Oh this guys wants $4 and hour. I’m going to see if I can get him for 3.” Like really? Really though? Do you feel good about that?
It’s how much do you value your own time and I really like your approach. By paying him that extra dollar an hour, you’re cutting down the chance that he leaves you and you’re just going to have to spend a lot more time finding someone else and who knows if you’ll ever find someone else that good again.
If you find a worker that you like, treat him well so that he stays with you over time and that’s going to make and save you way more money in the long run.
This actually segues nicely into my next question for you on how to hire a virtual assistant is how do you create loyalty? How do you manage these people? How do you communicate with them because they’re on the other side of the world? How do you make them feel part of a team?
Sure. I’d credit my business partner, Connor Gillivan. You can check him out at connorgillivan.com. He’s all about teamwork.
When I first started my Amazon store, I was that rough ridged business owner. Everyone just does what they’re told. There’s no real need to have that teamwork and interaction.
He really opened my eyes about first of all just making the working atmosphere fun. Second of all, employee happiness and retention and how it’s … You get so much more out of it over time.
A lot of cool things we’ve done internally at FreeeUp with both my assistants and the way that FreeeUp interacts with the workers in the marketplace who are working for clients is we keep everyone involved. We make them feel part of the team. We keep them updated on the business’ success and even failures so they feel a part of it.
We give people credit for how they’re contributing whenever a client gets a compliment or whenever a worker gets a compliment from a client, we share it with the team.
Whenever a worker builds a part of the FreeeUp website and maybe they do something that goes above and beyond, we give them credit, the recognition.
We constantly check in to make sure that first of all, they understand the direction the company’s going and they want to be a part of it. Also, that they’re overall happy.
If they’re not happy and there’s something they don’t like, we encourage feedback. We encourage people to share their opinions. We’re going to take that feedback. You can never address every single feedback that you get immediately. You try to make it a better work environment because the better you make it for them, the better it’s going to be for you long-term.
Yeah. It’s interesting because when you’re building this virtual organization, you want people that are going to stay with you. Many people don’t recognize this in the process of learning how to hire a virtual assistant.
It’s funny how many people learning how to hire a virtual assistant don’t apply the same things that they would apply to an actual company with people in an office to their virtual teams. When in reality, all of those things I think play an important role in creating that loyalty, creating people that actually care and feel part of that business.
Now that you’ve mastered how to hire a virtual assistant, when you have a team, how are you managing them? Are you doing screen tracking? What level of tracking and how do you create accountability with a virtual team.
It’s a good question. It’s something that you always struggle with no matter if you hire freelancers from anywhere. Even screen trackings can get manipulated and they don’t necessarily tell the full story.
We built a custom time clock software that doesn’t have screen tracking yet but essentially you punch in, punch out and you’re required to leave notes when you do that so the client can see at anytime.
For us, it’s all about communication. Pretty much everything has to be in writing with hour estimates. Workers on the FreeeUp Marketplace aren’t even allowed to start projects unless that stuff is in place. If the client is like, “Hey, I need you to work 8 hours,” the worker’s not allowed to work 9 hours without prior approval and most people within reason are going to get that approval.
The same thing goes with completing work. Every time the worker completes something, they update the client so that it’s not just, “Oh, I completed 15 hours of work. Here everything is,” and you have no idea what’s going on. We want constant updates. That’s a big key to working out how to hire a virtual assistant.
We want a paper trail so that no one feels like they’re being treated unfairly and that everything is there to look back on. If we need to look back 3 weeks and how many emails someone answered in 8 hours, we can check that compared to today.
The client knows their business better than we do so we leave it up to the client and we also leave it up on past feedback from different history of clients.
A lot of workers on the marketplace care a lot more about staying within the FreeeUp network and following our policies and treating the client’s business as their own than they do about getting that extra hour because it’s just not worth it for them. Because if we find that they’re manipulating their time card in any way, then they just lose access to all these great clients that they would never get otherwise.
Right. Let’s talk about communication, which is such an important part of how to hire a virtual assistant. When you’re communicating with contractors and you’re managing them, is it all via written? Are you speaking to them via Skype? What’s your recommendations there?
My strong recommendation is to, especially when you’re dealing with international workers, put everything in writing. Do all training in writing.
If you’re not going to do that, my next step would be a YouTube video, something that they can look back on.
The worst thing that my clients do and I always discourage them not to do that is they’ll have a one-on-one training video with the worker and then there will be nothing for them to look back on. Nothing to show if there’s any miscommunication at the worker.
If the client’s like, “I told the worker this,” I have no proof of whether that actually happened or not. Any worker that wants to make a client happy, they’re going to review stuff and study the way the client wants it done.
If they have a question, instead of bothering the client, they can go and look it up. It just makes a lot more sense to put it in writing.
You’ve got other things like the language barrier that factor in in different ways. I always recommend putting it in writing or making it so someone can go back and rewatch a video, something like that.
It’s by far the best way of communication and that was one of the first mistakes that I made early on learning how to hire a virtual assistant is I spent so much time doing these one-on-one training sessions. It doesn’t protect you if a worker quits. Then you have to stop what you’re doing and do it all over again.
It’s better to take the time to create the training guides, the YouTube videos, whatever it is, and make a lot of different resources available to the worker.
That’s a huge one as well. I guess one of the things that I want to emphasis to listeners is those videos, those training videos, you might be making it for a certain VA but that becomes an asset for your business that allows you to now bring in additional VAs or when a VA leaves, bring another one in their place and quickly onboard them into your organization without that same amount of training and time you had to put into it.
For me, I’ll just give a perfect example of this, my podcast process from recruiting guests all the way through to publishing is a documented process step-by-step with little videos for every single one of them.
Now, how long did that take me to do? Probably took me a good day to put together. Now, if someone leaves which fortunately nobody has, but if somebody does, I can swap somebody in and the process continues very, very easily.
I see this with entrepreneurs. We’re so busy. There’s so much stuff going on. To sit down and create these training videos can seem daunting and you think you don’t have time but you have to make that time when mastering how to hire a virtual assistant.
It becomes such a valuable asset. Make sure you’re doing that.
I want to talk a little bit about countries because this is always a question that comes up as well when my students are wanting to learn how to hire a virtual assistant. What countries are you finding the best talent in for specific roles? Have you got any advice around that?
Yes. The majority of my workers are in US and the Philippines. For whatever reason, they seem to do better in our interview process and our testing. With that said, I have plenty of good workers that are not in the Philippines or in US.
India is kind of hit or miss. I have some really great workers from India that I’ve worked with for years. I trust them on my own Amazon account and with my top clients. I’ve had other ones that I have had pretty bad experiences with. It really varies.
I had good workers from Bangladesh, Jamaica, different places like that but I’ve also had bad experiences as well.
For whatever reason, people in the Philippines seem to get it. They’re more in line with American cultures and values but that’s just looking at them as a whole rather than individual because I’ve got good people from all over.
Right. When you’re working with say a Filipino or Indian or something like that, there’s always cultural differences. There’s holidays. There’s just different stuff going on. I mean Philippines has power outages, stuff like that. How do you handle that?
Sure. In terms of the culture, one of my biggest tips and I have a client, Taylor, who’s followed this to a tee, is write out your entire business upfront.
Before you jump into the actual training, make sure they actually understand your business. If you’re selling raincoats, teach them about the raincoat business, the raincoat industry, what it actually does in the US, when you started, how much you’ve grown, stuff like that so they have a background and they know what they’re actually getting into.
It’s only going to make them adapt faster and become a better worker for you.
In terms of the culture differences and the power outages and stuff like that, it’s always going to happen. With us, communication’s incredibly important. I have over 100 workers in my team. I have lots of people that overlap in skills and they’re more than happy to sub in for each other as well.
Even if my workers have a power outage, we don’t hire anyone unless they have Viber or WhatsApp on a smartphone. If workers from the marketplace have a power outage or anything like that, they’re still able to contact the client.
If they can’t contact the client, they can contact me or one of my assistants and we’ll inform the client and be like, “Hey. There’s a power outage. What work do you have done? Is it urgent?”
If it’s urgent, “Hey, we’ll comp you these hours and have this worker do it for you at the same price. We’ll give you a more advanced worker at the same price you’re hiring for,” whatever it takes to hold down the fort until the worker gets done.
That’s a new cool service that we added in because you’re right, when I first started outsourcing, people would lose power and you’d just be like, “What? How is this happening? My business can’t go down because some Filipino on the other side of the world doesn’t have power.”
We add that level of protection but communication is everything. If my worker loses power or has an emergency and they don’t contact us, they don’t work for us very long.
Yeah. You mentioned WhatsApp. What was that other app? Viber?
Viber. They’re both free.
What is Viber? How do you spell that?
V-I-B-E-R. It’s pretty much the same thing as WhatsApp. It’s just preferences. For whatever reason, people in the UK prefer WhatsApp where people in the Philippines prefer Viber. I’m not sure why.
Oh interesting. Yeah. That’s one of the things too. Once you start learning how to how to hire a virtual assistant and outsourcing to these different countries, take some time to understand the technology they use. Just their holidays.
The Philippines has a whole different realm than North America or Australia or the UK or whatever, right? Taking the time to understand that is huge.
Last question for you about how to hire a virtual assistant. You’ve created this unique firm and I know a question that will be outstanding in people’s mind is why would I use a firm like yours versus hiring directly or using an Upwork? What are the benefits? What’s the difference?
Sure. On the front end we save you the time of doing the HR. We’ve pre-vetted these workers. We also have years of hiring experience between me and my team so we can listen to your needs and put you in touch with the right worker pretty quickly.
Our sign-up process is five minutes. The FreeeUp Marketplace has a lot of workers or a lot of clients that get workers immediately after that or within minutes as long as me and my team are not asleep.
On the front end we make it quick and easy to get access to these vetted workers.
On the back end we’re there to support you. We’ll consult with you, help you out if you have any question on how to communicate. We’ll give you tips on how to help your workers, help your company going forward and then we’ll be ongoing.
If there’s any miscommunication, we’ll hop in a group Skype and clear everything up. You can CC us or my team in emails and we’ll follow along and make sure that it’s going smoothly. On the very back end, we protect you if your worker quits.
I already talked about protecting you if there’s any power outages or stuff like that. We never leave our clients hanging. You’re never going to be in a situation like Upwork where you hire someone and spend 2 weeks training and then you just can never get a hold with them.
We’ve got people on my team that’ll track down that worker. Figure out what’s going on. Workers on the FreeeUp marketplace are provided best practices to communicate ahead of time so that doesn’t even happen. We’ll protect you guys going forward.
Awesome. That’s a huge benefit because I’ve used a lot of different platforms and that doesn’t exist. I don’t think I’ve seen that anywhere, that level of service, that level of backup that exist. That’s awesome.
Before we wrap things up, if our listeners who are learning how to hire a virtual assistant obviously want to find out more about FreeeUp, your business, stuff like that, projects you’re working on, where do they go?
Going forward we also have a blog too where we update not only eCommerce stuff but different content that we’ve created on how to hire virtual assistants. We’ve recently posted an article on the pros and cons of Upwork. We try to engage our community and keep the knowledge flowing so to speak.
Fantastic. Nathan, thanks so much for sharing so many tips, strategies for successfully how to hire a virtual assistant. I’d really recommend people check out the service you’re offering because it sounds awesome.
Again, thanks so much.
Thank you Derek.
Fantastic. All right everyone that was outsourcing expert Nathan Hirsch. As always any links mentioned in the interview will be included in the show notes along with the entire transcript of this episode.
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Now, it’s time to take the tips, the tools, all those strategies Nathan shared with you today and apply that final essential ingredient which is action. Go forth. Take action. Apply what you’ve learned and stay tuned for more info packed episodes of The Project Ignite Podcasts.
This is your host Derek Gehl signing off.